Circular No 798

Newsletter for alumni of The Abbey School, Mt. St. Benedict, Trinidad and Tobago, W.I.

Caracas, 18 February 2017 No. 798

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Dear Friends,

In this issue I shall include all the outstanding emails on the theme of MSB identities, Time to Reflect

The pro and cons of publishing the oldboys list, and what should be published.

This brings up a question of what information we, Kazim Abalasi (keeper of the list) and myself should keep and use.

I have, as EDITOR a large amount of information that might be called sensitive for the general Alumni.

How much should I disclose???

The emails in question are from 2008, and lot has happened, hopefully our service has not been in conflict with your privacy.

Here is the opinion of a judge, do you differing opinion?

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Friday, February 8, 2008 1:13:23 PM

Hello Nigel,

In the early days of the Circular, Ladislao published extracts from your first database as attachments to the Circular. 

That was about 2002 or 2003. 

I later published them in the MSB Blogs.

I do not believe the publication did any damage to any of the named 'old boys'. 

No Social Security numbers or dates of birth were included. 

There were only names, email addresses, telephone numbers, and other stuff that could be got from any online telephone or other directory. 

We need a computer guru to tell us how paranoid we really ought to be. 

I am for publishing the directory, with as much contact information as possible. 

If Ladislao could publish it again in the Circulars, perhaps over a period of one year, that would be perfect. 

Of course, he should not start until you are satisfied that you have updated it as much as you think you are likely to do without having to do a great deal more digging.

Don

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From: Nigel P. Boos

Subject: Time to Reflect

Glen,

You're quite right.

Jon Golding had previously voiced the same concerns in light of today's problems re. Identity theft and I agree with him.  I think it's not a good idea to have all this personal info in one place.

For this reason, I've modified the file and will not be distributing mailing addresses or telephone numbers.

If anyone wants to have that information, then all they'd have to do is to contact me, and once they can confirm their existence as an Old Boy of the Abbey School, I'd feel justified in releasing that information to that person - if I have it.

Best wishes.

Nigel

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From: mckoy43glen@hotmail.com

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:01:48 +0000

Glen,

I understand your fears but he will not lose his job, I am a freemason not active anymore, we can blacklist a member.

But we don't want no harm come to him, we do care for the guy, and if his boss is a Mount Boy, well this is where we will see how much power we have in our members.

I think his boss might try to fire him to show support, but it will not be a good idea, the boss must know this, it might be just another plan, to show the injustice we have caused him, I feel he's talking to a lawyer, 

I think he would love his boss to fire him, 

I don't think he can touch any of us in any way but we don't need any bad press. 

So many lessons we are learning.  

All I can say is don't let emotions cloud our vision.

This is where the invisible body goes to work.  

Nobody knows who they are.  I don't, so your concerns have been heard.  Leave it with the elders, and stop beating up yourself, you didn’t bring this up, a man is responsible for his actions.

Who knows, he might just up and quit. 

Let’s stop assuming, and wait till we cross that bridge o.k. what must be will be.

We have hundreds of members, we cannot fall apart every time one of our members have a tantrum/fit / or start crying.

That list is already becoming a valuable item in the wrong hands. 

I think phone numbers / addresses etc. should not be on the list. 

If some is looking for a number or address they must identify themselves as a brother, or we will have the brother contact them.  

Think about it Nigel, talk to the elders about this.  

Just names and emails.

Would someone tell me to shout up,   

Thanks, Glen...............

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Rafael Echeverría <reglaw@gmail.com>

Friday, February 8, 2008 3:59:52 PM

Dear ALL!

It is incredible how far we Mount Boys have reached our coverage. 

Now we are in China ... on a rig!  JA!

I like Don's idea sent to Nigel - and copied to all of us - about publishing the list as is ... and in this way have it completed when exposed in time. 

It is my thought that publishing the list perhaps would stimulate all to complete their personal data. 

Do you all agree ?  [Don ! ... did I understand you correctly ?] 

On my part I am at this moment trying to find as much email addresses as I can (my three brothers included - Mount Boys after me - and friends here in Florida) as Nigel has requested from me to have them included in the list and complete it as best as possible.  

I guess all others must be doing the same.  

This is incredible. 

But I just cannot avoid this feeling of pride in inner contempt when I read your mails and how you communicate with each other. 

Thank you for copying me !  You work like ants. 

HA ! ... God Bless You All. I am so proud of you all and believe that the efforts you are doing are tremendous! I really believe that. 

You know ... When I arrived into Piarco last November Steven Anderson and his lovely wife Sandy went to pick me up.  

On the way to Port of Spain Steven made the comment of how there was this "strange link" among Mount Boys. 

That he could not explain it but that he felt we were all like "brothers". 

Wherever we were and in whatever circumstance. ..... Man! .... Now!  ... that's talking ! 

I will copy him to share the good moment.

Siempre Amigo !

Rafael / CheChe

D.O.G.

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 Ladislao Kertesz <ladislaokertesz@hotmail.com>

Friday, February 8, 2008 6:13:56 PM

Dear Glen,

Just in case I have not written to anyone as yet on this long-winded emails exchanges, I am waiting for an end to the rough exchanges.

I am not going to copy the emails that were sent on the subject as I usually do because there are too many philosophical matters that affected each individual and the idea of the circular is not to open old wounds.

But I am going to make a resume as best as I can because what happened happened.

I agree with you in that there are too many things that can be vented if we get down to the detail.

But after so many years ????

This does not say that we did not have problems in the 1950s but the good outweigh the bad by a good margin.

In my case I really have to dig deep to be able to write on those long forgotten memories, it is not fun to spend time on the poor side and name individuals, who did what after all this years.

At the Catholic University of America in Washington D.C. the initiation was like all initiations, and at that time in one frat house I believe someone died in one of the episodes in 1961, but I cannot be sure at this time.

So, did this make me different?

I just take precautions even now days here in Caracas Venezuela where weekend every half an hour someone dies violently.

God Bless

Ladislao

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Don Mitchell CBE QC <idmitch@anguillanet.com>

Saturday, February 9, 2008 10:17:37 AM

Hello Jon and Nigel,

A very timely caveat.

However, I am not sure that what Nigel proposes to put on the database comes close to being that type of confidential information that can bring us to grief. 

I have not given Nigel any of my confidential information. 

I have only given him information about me that is already in the public domain. 

If anything that can be utilised in identity theft is proposed to be included, I agree entirely that all those protective steps should be taken. 

Poor Nigel, trying to coordinate sending out the requests to all the old boys, then to receive, file, and retain for the requisite statutory limitation period all those releases!!! 

On the other hand, if he only publishes public information, no harm can befall any of us from the publication in a MSB database. 

Ipso facto, no releases will be required.

What would you say would be the minimum? 

I offer four columns:

Full name,

Date of Form V,

Email address,

Listed either home or work telephone number, and no more.

Would that work?

Don

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Nigel Boos <nigelboos@yahoo.ca>

Saturday, February 9, 2008 4:11:00 PM

Gentlemen,

I need your help, please.

All the email addresses in the "To" section (above) keep getting bounced back to me and although in fact they might be getting through to the recipients, I have no way of confirming this.

I am sending out this email to those names (58 of them) to see how many, if any, come back to me unanswered.

At the same time, I note that in some cases, there seems to be a family member who might be able to correct the email address for me, based on individual independent records.

I am therefore asking everyone in the "cc" section to please look at the email addresses I've already supplied for those guys in the "To" section, and to check whether you might have proven other email addresses which you can share with me.

We need to reduce this crop of 58 incorrect email addresses to perhaps 10, which I would consider reasonable.

Thanks for your help.

Nigel

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Nigel P. Boos <nigelboos@eagles-wings.ca>

Saturday, February 9, 2008 10:07:46 AM

John,

I think we should take your warning very seriously.

In fact, unless we obtain some sort of legal protection with which we can agree,

I personally would not want to be responsible for releasing any sensitive personal contact information without prior approval from individuals to whom that information refers.

I propose to put together a draft of a proposed "Release of Information" document, with a disclaimer, which, once approved by whomever (Ladislao, Don, yourself, the current President of ASOBA, whoever that might be??) should be forwarded to everyone on the database for their agreement and signature.

Subsequently, only that information which has been agreed to shall be released.

Does this seem reasonable to you?

Nigel

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EDITED by Ladislao Kertesz,  kertesz11@yahoo.com,  if you would like to be in the circular’s mailing list or any old boy that you would like to include.

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Photos:

14GK437GKH, Gerard Khan

17LK2363LUNCH,  Peter Morvay, Urbano Fedak and Pedro Castro

80LK0780FBGLA, Gary Lambkin

01ML0104EDIMSB, Sports field